Warning about Norton's Internet Security, bit of a blog.

Poster: Andy
Dated: Thursday June 24 2004 - 18:43:18 BST

It seems Norton Security, in their infinite wisdom, have decided to add keyword blocking to their "Pop-Up Blocker" and "Ad Blocker" as part of the Norton Internet Security Suite 2004 that will unfortunately break some menus. In fact it will probably break pretty much any JavaScript or DHTML that use certain keywords.

One of the keywords at fault is "Sponsor". I know this because I've just spent 2 painful hours trying to figure out why the menu failed but only with certain menu data files. After picking out all of the code bit by bit I finally found the culprit. It's a bloody good job there was only one problematic keyword otherwise I'd probably still be debugging the thing this time tomorrow and I'd have missed the footie

Anyway, after closer inspection of the internet, courtesy of my good friend Google, I found that this is a growing problem and something that is going to cause, not just us here at Milonic, but many many other web developers and web designers problems. All you hard work may be ruined by some lazy internet security code.

The reason for this is the way Norton Internet Security changes the content of your web pages without even asking first. This, in my humble opinion, is very naughty indeed. I mean, yeah, do something to stop these awful adverts by all means. One prime example is http://www.itv.com I simply HATE that website, every time I go there I'm just about to select a link when bosh, an advert for toilet paper appears and I've gone and bloody well clicked it by mistake. That to me is possibly fraud. I'm taken somewhere I had no intention of going and somebody has got richer in the process. After all said and done though it's just another way of spamming people and us unfortunate web surfers are just left to get on with it, which we do because we are all too busy to do anything about it.

Also, take note that those of you who make money from Google Ad Words may suffer too. Why? because it's blocking those adverts as well. I'm sure Google will find a fix soon but for now Norton are pissing everybody off it seems.

If anybody knows what the keywords are we could maybe post something here so that people don't use them in their menus. It's no good asking Symantec though they will probably just tell you it's a secret.

Sorry that this turned out to be a bit of a blog but this stuff REALLY annoys me. Like the fact that people can't edit the menu out of the box in Macromedia Contribute because it doesn't support IFRAMES. Er, hello that's part of the W3C HTML standards http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present ... tml#h-16.5 because of this we are just left to pick up the pieces after the bigger boys have busted our toys. We always bounce back though


Cheers
Andy

Poster: Andy
Dated: Thursday June 24 2004 - 18:46:42 BST

Oh and another thing.

Don't save any file with the name "emailtext.txt"

I did this, with Norton Internet Security running, and it stopped me from saving the file. It complained about it being a Trojan. Come on, it's a text file for heaven's sake

- Andy

Poster: John
Dated: Friday June 25 2004 - 4:45:58 BST

Norton continues to amaze me (I should know better by now), and just slides deeper down my pit of never-use-again products. Anybody care to join me? There's better stuff out there, anyway.

Poster: Ruth
Dated: Saturday June 26 2004 - 14:59:59 BST

I'll join you, John. Or you can join me since I got rid of them in '99. I don't really understand about the blocker and key-words, but I don't have anything set to do anything on my computer. I don't really go anyplace to worrry about it...just Milonic and ya'll are nice guys, never pop up anything in my face.

Ruth

Poster: fredlongworthhighschool
Dated: Monday June 28 2004 - 10:20:25 BST

Standards just seem to be dropping everywhere.

Norton products just get slower and slower. I think their answer to protecting your computer is to hinder it's operation to infuriate you so much that you turn your machine off.

Adverts are getting worse, especially the transparent ones which pop up and deliberately cover links.

The trouble is that companies are now forcing us to have what they want us to have rather than what we want.

Poster: Andy
Dated: Monday June 28 2004 - 10:30:23 BST



I remember Norton's stuff back in the good old DOS days. Their speed-disk and undelete programs were legendary. At the time they were absolute master pieces and Norton was my hero until one day I snook a peek into the executable code. I was shocked to that most of Norton's software written by a guy named Brad? Gasp "You mean Peter Norton doesn't actually develop the software?" - Seems he's just the marketing guy. Come back Brad all is forgiven



That's why I'm so happy that Microsoft are finally taking this problem into their own hands.

With Service Pack 2 (SP2) for Windows XP. This will be done by default in Internet Explorer so this means that people will not need software such as Norton's adblocker which for us is a good thing because Microsoft have taken just a little more care to ensure that their software doesn't break everybody's web site.

-- Andy

Poster: John
Dated: Monday June 28 2004 - 22:16:28 BST


Microsoft? More care?!? My - what have we been drinking today...

Poster: Andy
Dated: Tuesday June 29 2004 - 10:37:14 BST

I've had no alcohol for several days now so I'm completely sober

When I say that "Microsoft have taken more care" in relation to Norton they have. Making sure at least they don't mess about with anybody's carefully written HTML is just being more courteous

-- Andy

Poster: fredlongworthhighschool
Dated: Tuesday June 29 2004 - 13:25:30 BST



I think MS are more concerned at the minute with Linux pinching their customers! The UK "Truth about Open Source" tour is a farce.

Poster: Andy
Dated: Wednesday June 30 2004 - 12:26:06 BST



How come?

Poster: Swetsenegger
Dated: Saturday July 3 2004 - 18:02:26 BST

Norton (and all other security software) sucks.

Why? Well, it's save indeed, but end-users have no clue what the software is doing.

I'm a technical manager for one of the bigger european companies which manufacter routers for home use. And one of the big issues is the fact the firewall software block the LAN access to the gateway.

Try to explain to somebody who's barely capable to find the start button in windows how to add a gateway address as trusted site to Norton Internet Security.

It's a pain.

Poster: Andy
Dated: Monday July 5 2004 - 11:46:09 BST



I can imagine - We have the same problem with the menu. When a user complains that the menu fails they immediately assume it's the menu at fault. Trying to tell them it's their Internet Security software causing it they then say it's still a bug in the menu. It's a no win situation for all of us.

The worst part of it is that the developers behind the software have absolutely no intention of changing things. I mean, why should they? Their software works, it's tough luck for the rest of us.

Cheers
Andy

Norton keywords

Poster: Maquil
Dated: Sunday July 25 2004 - 15:00:49 BST

Hi,

Do you have a list of words we should be careful with using it in a Milonic menu apart from 'Sponsor'? You wrote "One of the keywords at fault is "Sponsor"." which seems to indicate there are more of them?

Bye,

Maquil

Poster: dahazeman
Dated: Wednesday July 28 2004 - 14:04:31 BST

"Advertising"

That's another bad word, according to Norton/Symantec.

http://www.milonic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4582

Gotta love Norton eh? NOT

Poster: sjp1966
Dated: Friday July 30 2004 - 9:18:42 BST



What stuff out there is better? i use NIS 2003 and never had any problems. but if there is a bettter firewall and antivirus out there then i would be keen to hear of it.

Poster: fredlongworthhighschool
Dated: Friday July 30 2004 - 11:04:04 BST



I'd strongly recommend Zone Alarm Pro. I use that along with McAfee and never had a problem. I used to use Norton products for many years previously.

Poster: John
Dated: Saturday July 31 2004 - 0:03:06 BST


I'll very strongly second Andy's reply.

Poster: Zukiwi
Dated: Monday August 2 2004 - 18:09:45 BST

I use NIS 2004, and I have been having trouble from day one: We though it would be good as with NIS 2003, we never did have any issues:

NIS 2004 issues we've encountered;

Firewall - FTP issues, browsing issues (appeared after some updates)

Results: no longer using NIS Firewall

Anti-Spam: (appeared after an update) Stops all incoming mail not just spam

Result: no longer using NIS anti-spam

Ad blocking: - Prevents some website from loading ie: new allmusic.com website

Results: no longer using ad blocking

This aside from issues with Outlook from the start, (it hates multiple users and gives a'visual basic errors') and some other issues with voice recognigtion thing (which you need to disable in windows XP). MSN Messenger issues (you need to disable it) I'd say that NIS 2004 is NOT a good buy.

Moral of this NIS 2004 story: It is the same as a high tech dishwasher, the more buttons, the more issues, the less effective.

Poster: Andy
Dated: Monday August 2 2004 - 18:48:09 BST

Sheesh, it's not looking good is it?

Come on Symantec, you can do better than this.

-- Andy

Poster: John
Dated: Monday August 2 2004 - 18:50:07 BST


Or maybe not...

Poster: fredlongworthhighschool
Dated: Wednesday August 4 2004 - 9:37:37 BST

Zonelabs must be rubbing their hands with glee!

Poster: Elaine
Dated: Monday August 16 2004 - 1:19:20 BST

I'm not sure this is entirely relevant, but I had a conversation (totally useless) in March with Norton tech support about a problem that was driving me insane. Here is the correspondence, which I include for its entertainment value:

**********************************

-----Original Message-----
From: symantec_support [at] ecemail.ece.com
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 4:03 AM
To: webteam [at] chai-online.org
Subject: RE:Privacy / Ad Blocking [#1472453]

Hi Elaine,

Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical Support. I understand the difficulties that you are currently facing.

In your message you wrote:

>If a user has Ad Blocking enabled, some graphics and even some hypertext links will not appear on his site. As a web developer, this is of great concern to me. I can disable Ad Blocking on my own computer, but what about all the users of my websites?

Elaine, I apologize for the inconvenience caused.

Thank you for your valuable feedback.

However, please note that we are not in a position to provide you a comprehensive list of all the keywords that could trigger Norton Internet Security (NIS) to identify the link or the graphic as an Ad. Some of the most common key words are "Ad", "banner” and 'popup'.

Please get in touch with us, if you need further assistance.

Best regards,

Ashik Cariappa
Symantec Authorized Technical Support

**********************************
Don't you love it?

Poster: kevin3442
Dated: Monday August 16 2004 - 4:13:31 BST

Jeez! I wonder how many developers use the word "banner" in their header grapics for a company website... quite a few I would think. And how many of up have used "popup" in our own js scripts (like a function called popupWin() to open a new window, for completely legitimate reasons)? Wonder how this affects Milonic's often-used popup() menu function?

Bunch of self righteous, over zealous pricks. They may not care how their new stuff affects developers, but they'll care when it starts affecting their bottom line.

Apparently the product has many other issues... want an idea of how their customers are resonding? Read this. Wonder what braniac at Symantec approved this plan?

Kevin

Poster: darkcircuituk
Dated: Monday September 20 2004 - 14:57:53 BST

John Wrote:


I used McAfee for a couple of years and I was quite content with the service it provided, not one virus in 2 years, I was bloody shocked. A member of my family one day decided to alert me to the existance of a website that allows you to download a dummy virus that you can use to check that your virus checker is working fine.

I decided to try this dummy virus after hours of contemplating the reprocussions that might come about it if wasn't a dummy

I started to download the dummy virus thinking that McAfee would kick in any second and tell me I am trying to download a virus and then immediately stop the download. Guess what? It let me fully download the file and only told me it was a virus when I tried to implement the file

This in my opinion is a very bad way in which to virus protect, I know of viruses in existance that just need to be downloaded and they will cause damage to your computer, you don't even need to implement them.

The first thing I did after finding out this revelation was to uninstall McAfee and then I proceded to try out a few different anti-virus programs. If you want a nice basic no thrills virus checker that will not slow down your system but doesn't look great, then try panda anti-virus.

BUT if you want 100% protection and you are not concerned about your system slowing down or that your system is so bloody fast you would barely notice the slow down, then go for Norton Antivirus!! As mentioned in earlier posts, it does slow down your computer a lot and is very resource hungry, but I know what I'd rather have, a virus free computer. I am always on the lookout for new revolutionary software, but until they produce a fast reliable anti-virus software, then Norton r my guys

Dave

Poster: xmanflash
Dated: Monday December 6 2004 - 4:41:12 GMT



Dave,

I have had a number of machines now that have been running up to date Norton Antivirus protection, that I have found viruses operating on. I am one of about 8 tech people who have had the same experience.

We all installed the free Grisoft Antivirus product and found between 12 and 66 viruses on each of the problem machines. Grisoft removed them and fixed most of the problems. Its free.

I would never recommend Norton anything to anyone now, and neither would anyone I know who has spent the last 10 years or so supporting hardware or software.

They only have the market by the proverbials due to the good image that Peter Norton gave with the origonal products and how well they worked back then (basically people liked being able to get their lost info back), and how much money they throw at keeping their product at the forefront of shop staffs minds by software deals and heavy advertising.

With Zone Alarm, I found that the speed of transfer of files from a machine on a gigabit network halved, while it was running. An older version also used to blue screen windows SQL server advanced. I used a Tiny Personal Firewall (older) Free version and speed was much higher. However Tiny do not do a free version now.

I have gravitated towards using Mailwasher Spam killer, then Thunderbird for email (after using netscape mail for years and never getting a virus- NS mail was too dumb for that and firefox for websites, grisoft AVG for viruses and one of the plethora of spyware catchers, and believe I am much safer than many who use MS products with large corporations safety products. And all for Free.

Cya

Norton stuff not so good..

Poster: xmanflash
Dated: Monday December 6 2004 - 4:44:27 GMT



Dave,

I have had a number of machines now that have been running up to date Norton Antivirus protection, that I have found viruses operating on. I am one of about 8 tech people who have had the same experience.

We all installed the free Grisoft Antivirus product and found between 12 and 66 viruses on each of the problem machines. Grisoft removed them and fixed most of the problems. Its free.

I would never recommend Norton anything to anyone now, and neither would anyone I know who has spent the last 10 years or so supporting hardware or software.

They only have the market by the proverbials due to the good image that Peter Norton gave with the origonal products and how well they worked back then (basically people liked being able to get their lost info back), and how much money they throw at keeping their product at the forefront of shop staffs minds by software deals and heavy advertising.

With Zone Alarm, I found that the speed of transfer of files from a machine on a gigabit network halved, while it was running. An older version also used to blue screen windows SQL server advanced. I used a Tiny Personal Firewall (older) Free version and speed was much higher. However Tiny do not do a free version now.

I have gravitated towards using Mailwasher Spam killer, then Thunderbird for email (after using netscape mail for years and never getting a virus- NS mail was too dumb for that and firefox for websites, grisoft AVG for viruses and one of the plethora of spyware catchers, and believe I am much safer than many who use MS products with large corporations safety products. And all for Free.

Cya

Poster: Ruth
Dated: Monday December 6 2004 - 18:08:27 GMT

I'm with you XMAN. I have Grisoft, free updates and I have ZoneAlarm [free]

Ruth

Norton keyword list link

Poster: gardnose
Dated: Wednesday December 22 2004 - 11:00:53 GMT

Just found a PDF online that lists a bunch of the keywords used by Norton.
http://www.myaffiliateprogram.com/pdf/p ... ocking.pdf

Can't vouch for accuracy, but it's a good place to start.

Poster: kevin3442
Dated: Wednesday December 22 2004 - 18:50:17 GMT

Thanks for the heads up. Resources on those keywords are scarce as far as I can tell. I'm sure Norton wants to keep them as secret as possible.

Kevin