Menu version WITHOUT the Milonic Link ?!

Poster: Googolplex
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 18:23:20 BST

How do I get a version without the Milonic Link as the second item in the main menu ?!

I read the following:

'You can request that this link be removed from future downloads if you let us know and can prove your non-profit status.'

But when I tried to request a new Free License I could't, because I already have on for that particular domain. I don't know how to get a menu without the link

Please help, I cannot use the menu with this link as the second main item (as a sub-item its just fine, that's the way I had it with v. 3.x).

Poster: Hergio
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 18:43:01 BST

new licesing requirements force you to purchase a professional version of the menu to get the link removed. If you search the forum, you will find the reasons why this was done. Its only a mere ~ U$34.

Only if you pay or qualify for the free license (by sending proof by email to Milonic ) can you have it removed. Also, if you have a link on the site and want the free version, Andy mentioned there will be an announcement about that in the next few days...so stay tuned.

Poster: Googolplex
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 19:47:39 BST

But how do I proof I qualify for a free menu ?!!

I already have a free menu license for version 3.x, but as I said, I could not request a new free menu for version 5.0, it rejected my request because that Domain already have a license number.

Poster: Hergio
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 20:37:10 BST

Email marty __at__ milonic.com with your license number, your domain, any proof you have of being non-profit, and explain your situation. By proof I mean, any documentation that proves you are a charity or officially non-profit. If you are an educational institution, you must purchase a license. If you are using the menu on a personal website, you cannot remove the link without purchasing since part of the free menu agreement is you must have a link back to milonic on the page and the hard coded link is just that. Like I said, we've explained before why we must now hard code it in there, but people basically abused the free menu and took it without linking or paying so we had to institute this. Sorry. But wait a couple days, there may be slight changes to the way the licensing works.

Poster: Googolplex
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 21:39:08 BST

I use the menu for my personal website (fun and test site) and intended to use it for my school (where we are only allowed to use freeware).

I really hope you change the free license rules, because I cannot use version 5.0 with the hard link and I cannot (and will not) pay

I always had the Milonic link as instructed, to bad people are abusing it.

I guess I have to stick with version 3.15 or move on to another menu system

Poster: John
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 21:49:34 BST


"Cannot" (and your school policies) I can understand - "will not" is an entirely different story. The price is really el cheapo for the product, service, and support you get.

Poster: Hergio
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 21:56:32 BST

Its unfortunate that you feel this way. I understand that because of the actions of others, you have to suffer, and it sucks, but if Milonic kept doing what it was doing, it would go out of business due to the fraudulant use of the menu and there would be no great menu to use anymore!

Now thats really unfortunate. There has been a ton of hard work put into this menu and you sound like you expect it to be free. Its a privledge that Milonic provides a free menu, not a right. And plus even the price is not steep at all. Your school has policies and thats fine, but for you to use it on your site and get all that it has to offer, its dirt cheap.

Poster: Googolplex
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 22:07:55 BST

I certainly do not expect the Menu to be free

When I design sites for others, I use the menu whenever it's possible and pay accordingly.

But for my personal site ? Not a chance! It's not that I expect the menu to be free, I just wont use it if it isn't. The site is just for fun/testing, as most personal, family related sites are. I assume that is why the menu was free for personal sites to begin with ?

As for my school, well, Milonic may be dirt cheap, but then again...you haven't the budget for my school Not anything I can do about it

One idea though, would it be possible to HARD CODE the Milonic Link as a subitem instead, that would be just perfect

Anyway, I'll wait and see what happens

Ps. Can I still use version 3.x with the old rules ?

Poster: Andy
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 22:13:51 BST

I think people should stick around and have a little faith in Milonic

http://www.milonic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10529#10529

Anyway, John I've had emails bounce for you, might want to check your mail server.

Cheers
Andy

Poster: Googolplex
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 22:21:45 BST

That is just perfect

I can certainly live with a admin fee of $5 and a link back to superb Milonic (just not in the main menu...).

Poster: John
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 22:27:54 BST

Andy, the Outlook server here at the university has been down to incoming all morning. Not entirely sure I understand that, because I've been getting the topic notify messages just fine.

Home should be OK (AFAIK)...

Poster: John
Dated: Monday October 6 2003 - 22:31:39 BST


Your support is appreciated (and, quite frankly, needed if we expect Andy to keep things going as they are).

Now - work on your patience a bit...

Poster: fredlongworthhighschool
Dated: Tuesday October 7 2003 - 10:39:48 BST



Same with my school. We just don't have the funds to spend on non-essentials. When I got my free licence I was overjoyed, but it now seems that education licences have been downgraded.

I have no problem with a link to Milonic, but I would like the choice of where I place it, probably in the "ABOUT" section of my site. We already have links and Milonic logos in our credits section.

Poster: kevin3442
Dated: Tuesday October 7 2003 - 18:41:56 BST

I going to chime in here with my extremely intelligent, well considered, and deeply insightful opinion OK, on a serious note, I sincerely hope that Milonic will consider completely waiving the fee for public educational institutions up through high school (grade 12 in the U.S.). Now, post secondary... colleges and universities... trade schools, etc. are a different story... they charge students to attend so they have a better budget. But public schools are constantly on a shoestring budget. You look at any U.S. city where the operating budget is overstressed or they are operating on a deficit. What are the first things that happen? Property taxes are raised (again) and public school budgets are cut... sometimes cut deeply. For a student or even a teacher to get four or five more bucks out of the administration might honestly be an uphill battle; what'll often end up happening is the student will pay the five bucks him or herself, or some good-hearted teacher, who is already underpaid, will skip lunch for a couple of days and donate the five bucks.

I don't know if it'd be administratively possible to do this, but it's my hope.

</soap box>

Kevin

Poster: Andy
Dated: Tuesday October 7 2003 - 19:06:14 BST

This is exactly our dilemma

On one hand I'm so reluctant to offer our wares for free to all and sundry because we get taken advantage of, period.

However, I'm sympathetic to the way a lot of good people have to work. Limited (sometimes non existent) budgets and shocking locations but these people just keep doing it for the good of God.

I'm all for releasing free code but we need to filter the free-loaders.

Any ideas you can come up with will be given SERIOUS thought, I promise.

Cheers
Andy

Poster: bobwill
Dated: Wednesday October 8 2003 - 2:42:45 BST

Proving that you are non-profit does not mean that you have no money. For example, churches, schools, political organization, veterans organization and numerous others are classified as non-profit.

I am probably stepping on my own toes, but I used the menu for over a year, free and had a non-profit status because the organization that I developed the web site for was one of the largest non-profit organizations in the US. They spend millions of dollars each year, but have a non-profit status. Does anyone believe that the Catholic church is broke, but they are classifed as a non-profit organization. There is always a way to get reimbursed $34 for purchase of the menu.

At the time I applied for a free non-profit license I did not think that I was cheating anyone, since that was the rules Milonic had made. However, since the menu has been such a success and thousands of users depend upon it to function and support all types of browsers and operating systems I no longer think that it should be free. How do you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are truly destitute and have no means to purchase the menu? IMPOSSIBLE. Free-loaders will have to become Fee-loaders.

I purchased a license for the organization that I support and I will get reimbursed thru some indirect accounting or some times referred to as innovative financing.

I am sure you have heard this before, but why don't you limit the free version capabilites? Example, can only have 5 main menus and 2 sub-menus per main menu. Just a thought.

Just putting in my 2 cents worth.

Poster: John
Dated: Wednesday October 8 2003 - 14:56:25 BST

You make some excellent points, and your thoughts are appreciated.

I hadn't thought of a limited function menu for the freebie, but it could be an answer. I'd like to hear the boss' feelings on this.

Unfortunately, whatever we do, it's not going to cover everyone, and, more importantly, Andy still is not going to get what he is due.

Poster: Hergio
Dated: Wednesday October 8 2003 - 15:29:59 BST

Man, bob coming through with a heck of a statement! You make me feel even better about being associated with this menu than I was before! I agree on the money thing, most companies can make ends meet, especially for 34 bucks. If a one time 34 fee will break a company, it shouldnt be in business. But I also see Andy's thinking in that he's a very kind hearted business man and he doesn't mind letting charities and certain educational institutions use his product for free. For those types he's not looking at it from a business perspective, its more just what he feels is right and in goodwill.

I like the idea of a limited menu...the limited menu items sounds good. Or we could remove functionality, as in no filters or no followscroll unless you purchase a license. Or you could provide the free one with a full feature set, but with the Milonic link hard coded (and andy, I mean SUPER hard coded) and people could choose which free version to try. One of them should have a limit on menus, but one should have the unlimited because some people want to see if the menu can handle their data before buying it.

This way you can't get the whole she-bang without a license but you still expose all the awesome functionality for free, its just separated. Its another version to maintain, yes, but if it increases sales while still giving as much useage and experimentation to the public, then it may well be worth it.

As John said, I would love to hear Andy's thoughts.

Poster: kevin3442
Dated: Wednesday October 8 2003 - 20:02:07 BST

I like the idea of a limited free version too, but I don't know it it's practical. As Dave touched on, a problem with a limited-function version is the effort to maintain two different versions, especially when one has limited revenue-generating potential. Also, I recall some talk quite a while back about plans to produce a "Lite" version of the Milonic Menu, once the current version is done. If those plans still exist, then you wouldn't want your free limited version competing with your commercial lite version... I suppose both of these issues would depend on the type and extent of the limitations imposed.

Kevin

Poster: bobwill
Dated: Thursday October 9 2003 - 0:39:45 BST

I guess the "ball" is in Andy's court. If he wishes to have people "free-load" and take advantage of the menu program, that is his choice. I like the words "Lite" version. Many software vendors offer a free "Lite" version. I do not think the maintenance is a issue. Andy already provides a menu with and without the Milonic link, depending upon what your license status happens to be.

Andy has to remove his "heart" from the decision making process, which I admit is difficult to do. The old saying "Business is Business", still holds true. Unless Andy has other means (Money) to support the menu program then he has to make a hard business decision. Does he want to continue to support and provide the best menu program available to all who claim to be elgible for the free menu and entitle them to the same support as those who pay for the menu? I would think that those who pay should get something extra.

I look forward to Andy's comments concerning this issue.

Poster: Hergio
Dated: Thursday October 9 2003 - 4:44:48 BST

On a side, how would you rate the support provided by this forum? Considering that it is totally free, do you think things could be done differently? I may post a question in the anything goes forum on this to get a feel for what people think.

Poster: bobwill
Dated: Thursday October 9 2003 - 12:59:44 BST

I think the support is excellent. In my opinion what makes it that way is the "timely responses". For those of you who have to answer the same question over, and over, and over, and over again you must have nightmares about users questions. The Forum may also be a way of controlling the license. If you have a free license you can only review the Forum. since you have to login to ask a question the check could be made at login time to see if you qualify to post a question. The down side of this is that many "free" users are very knowledgable of the workings of the menu and offer some very good answers.

Poster: fredlongworthhighschool
Dated: Thursday October 9 2003 - 14:16:58 BST

How about no access to the forum? Many of the questions posted may have been answered in the past. I know a lot ask before searching but if they don't have the option to ask, they may then start to search and get their solution that way.