Netscape 4.7 problems

Poster: dfruchey
Dated: Friday August 29 2003 - 18:02:27 BST

We are testing the new version (lots to love about this release, I've submitted an order request with my supervisors). When we open a page in the Netscape 4.7 browser we get frequent crashes when scrolling over the menus. This applies to those we have created and the ones on your site as well.

From my attempts to duplicate the problem it seems to occur when we scroll over submenus. For instance, when I open the Milonic home page I seem fine, I can scroll over any of the top level menus and they open and display their contents. When I select the "DHTML Menu" and then place my mouse over the first item in the "Samples" sub-menu all seems fine. But as soon as I start to run my mouse down the list to select a sample Netscape completely crashes. This is consistent, the only difference seems to be in how far I can scroll down the menu before the crash (probably involves the speed of the mouse running down the list).

Poster: John
Dated: Thursday September 4 2003 - 23:47:55 BST

Please post a URL so we can see the error and your code.

Poster: dfruchey
Dated: Monday September 8 2003 - 17:00:36 BST

The easiest thing to do is to go to the Milonic website home page (http://www.milonic.com) and try it with Netscape 4.7.

1. Go to the home page and choose the DHTML Menu drop down menu.

2. Select the Samples flyout menu.

3. Begin scrolling down the list, about 4-5 items down the page my Netscape crashes. We have tried this with several variants of the 4.7x version of Netscape with similar results. Running this on computers that use Win2K and WinXP.

Thanks!

Poster: John
Dated: Monday September 8 2003 - 17:14:27 BST

Just did exactly what you asked (in addition to running all over the menu system there) with no problems whatsoever. Slow, fast as possible - made no difference. This was Win2K/NS4.79 (oldest I've got, and I don't even like having it on that system!).

Poster: dfruchey
Dated: Monday September 8 2003 - 19:13:02 BST

I installed the 4.79 version (we were using a 4.70 version for testing purposes) and it works as you stated. I checked our server logs and about 500 visits came from visitors with 4.5 - 4.78 visitors (less than 0.5% of our visitors).

We plan on putting a wrapper around the Javascript code for browser detection, if the visitor has a browser prior to netscape 4.79 they will get simple text links instead.

Thanks for checking into it!

Poster: John
Dated: Monday September 8 2003 - 19:26:01 BST

Actually I'd like to put barbed wire around the dopey thing Even 4.79 is a pain to write for - it's really picky on where you put 'class', divs, etc. To me, folks should be current - period. It's just not that hard.

You're welcome. We aimz to pleeze

Exact same problems in NS4.7 for windows

Poster: timpeel
Dated: Tuesday September 9 2003 - 10:36:25 BST

Hello,

I have read the issues people have been having with the new menu in Netscape 4.x and we are experiencing the exact same issues. The menu will load initially and then crash the browser after you rollover some of the menu items.

The Milonic homepage causes such problems and I would like to know whether or not this is a serious issue for Milonic or whether Netscape 4.x is considered obsolete?

I have read all the comments on how people using Netscape 4.x should upgrade and I believe this too. Sadly, it is still used - allbeit a small percentage - so it still needs to be considered in web development projects. I am a Web Developer and it is something that has dogged me over the years, however, Netscape still hangs on to a small percentage of the browser use market and we as a company still receive complaints when a site we develop does not function properly in it.

Why does the new menu crash the browser when version 3 worked like a treat. In many cases, the menu worked better in netscape!

Constructive comments would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

Tim

Poster: John
Dated: Tuesday September 9 2003 - 19:24:47 BST

Tim -

Unfortunately you face the same situation we all do (Dave and I are developers as well). We have folks using a product that is more versions back than we can count, but we also don't want to drive them away from our sites (even if they are wrong not to upgrade).

From a business standpoint (speaking for me, not Milonic), how long can Andy continue to try and support the old stuff (as shown by his special NS4 module), and continue to develop great new features, and still remain profitable?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, writing for NS4.7x is a pain, and it takes a lot of extra time to get things right. The negative to that is, of course, it's frequently not possible to get everything working in both ends of the spectrum, so you either annoy your old browser users, or hold back development of your site.

The university for which I work expects support back to NS4.74, and I have a real problem with that. Browser sniffers, dual CSS, etc., can only go so far, and you're still stuck in the 'dual development' mess. I just don't have the time for the extra work given everything else I have to do. A re-design of my entire primary site (400+ pages) is about to start, and they expect all kinds of fancy new stuff. Won't happen if I have to still support the oldies (and in many cases can't happen anyway).

This thread indicates a move to NS4.79 fixed those problems for one developer. It's still not out of the basement, but at least that problem was solved.

Bottom line? Tough to answer, but this developer is starting to taper off of extra coding for the old browsers.

Poster: tepidarium
Dated: Wednesday October 22 2003 - 16:07:26 BST

Hi,

I just want to say, I have experienced the exact same problem with Milonic Menu and Netscape 4.7 when testing on Apple MAC OS 9. NS 4.7 works with menu on Windows. Same crashing - even on Milonic main page. Not only will the menu crash on NS 4.7 on Mac, it also doens't display properly -i.e. submenu postioning. NS then generates a "Type 2 error" and shuts down.

John - I think you are right- it's a pain to support older browsers & at some point it is not feasible - that's fine, but if that is going to be the case the compatibility list for the menu featured in the docs & on the website should change - i.e. the menu is not stable in Netscape 4.7 for MAC OS 9.

Poster: John
Dated: Wednesday October 22 2003 - 20:56:50 BST


It's one of a long list of things Andy is working on right now. Other issues have come up which come first, but he will get to it ASAP.

Your patience is appreciated.

Poster: John
Dated: Wednesday October 22 2003 - 21:05:22 BST

Check this out...

http://www.milonic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11453#11453.

I suspect that's not the only fix that will be in there.

Poster: tepidarium
Dated: Wednesday October 22 2003 - 21:37:34 BST



John -never meant to rant. I think the menu is awesome and I'm excited about the prospect of deploying it on the website I maintain.

I also want to say, I've never seen such feedback from the people who actually produce the product like we get here. It really is appreciated!

Poster: John
Dated: Wednesday October 22 2003 - 22:02:18 BST


Not at all. Didn't take it as ranting.

Your kind words are most appreciated, believe me. Andy puts his heart and soul into his product(s) (hint!), and it really shows.

BTW, Dave and I don't work for Milonic, we're just users like everybody else here. We do this because of Andy, his product, and his attitude.

Thanks again.